Obama: "We are not at war against Islam we are at war against terrorist organisations that have distorted Islam and have falsely used the banner of Islam."Really? Try reading THIS. I spent the morning reading accounts of 9/11, sad things, heartbreaking stories, stories of how American born Muslims feel, how crappy the memorial to our heros on flight 93 is (that's one is HERE) and watching videos of people..no, make that MEN is Pakistan burning our flag in protest of the threat of burning the Quran/Koran. I also read a page about how the terrorists are in Hell, it was sort of amusing. Only because the descriptions of their abuse are so creative. That one is HERE.
I've also been reading the Quran online for months because I don't think you should talk shit about things you don't know about. When I'm finally through the mess, you can bet some Muslim will tell me it was translated wrong. God only speaks Arabic.
*
I've come to the conclusion that religion had doomed us all and there is no hope. As soon as man stood upright, he looked around and wondered, who am I, who made me? And the fight was on. For those with faith, there is a path. The rest of us just have to get off their path and hide in the forest and hope the radiation doesn't reach that far. Peace out.
83 comments:
And, by the way, I don't expect the president to tell us the truth all the time. If he did, we'd be scared shitless 24/7. I kind of like Obama. I just think that statment was given to the mindless who don't like to think. In other words, most of the population.
i agree.....religions with their zealots frighten me....the evangicals in the US actually frighten me more than the muslims in pakistan and the middle east because they are RIGHT HERE!! with the 'jesus loves me more than you' grins and full of self-righteousness, it is really scary....
re: 9/11 the most haunting images to me are the people on the upper floors of the WTC in the windows standing there knowing they're going to die....some jumped to their deaths in a last act of free will and others just waited for the inevitable....
and with some of those evangicals, it's like they're BAITING to incite others into a war to bring about the armageddon!
religions have caused millions of deaths through the years....caused the dark ages, etc....can you imagine how advanced we'd be as a people without religion??
Miss Tia, I really don't think things would be better without religion. You just haven't realized the amount of money, time, etc. given in the name of God. Many hospitals do their work based on the gifts of Christian groups, as do hospital groups who provide free medical care and/or surgery in the third world. My hospital is now Catholic and I love it, as they have a new attitude toward patients. "Ease my way" is their overlying principle, and they ask us to think what we can do for every patient according to that guideline.
I am deeply saddened by the way every aspect of 9/11 has been handled. The memorials, every thing falls flat. I went to our hometown memorial last year, and while it was touching, and I took lots of pictures of all the flowers floating on the river, and it was very cool that they closed the old bridge to all but foot traffic, I just kept wondering why this was how we are observing this occasion. How does this benefit anyone? Why haven't we made any grand, sweeping, fully-committed gesture that sends a message to the world? It is a sad legacy.
I remember that my favorite priest Father Rich was head of our parish at the time, and how overcome he was, during the homily, trying to describe his intense sadness, having seen the pictures of people who were falling, having jumped from the Towers. He kept having to try again, as he couldn't stop crying. Why haven't we conveyed this sadness and our outrage to the muslim world? Why do we continue to worry about what those bastards want, and how they will react? Retribution should have been swift and complete. We should have settled for no less.
that same money could have been given in the name of bettering mankind without any 'god' attached....
just think of corporate greed and the BILLIONS spent on finding 'cures' for diseases....i believe there IS a cure for cancer and other diseases but because it's big business one will never officially 'announced'....imagine a human race with healthy educated people!
Hi Christina.
I agree that a lot of good does come from people who take a message from their religion that calls for the helping of others and act upon it. St Jude's Children Hospital is a good example, as are the many shelters and food drives that are mainly faith based initiatives and do not discriminate their beneficiaries.
Always easy to trash religion unless it's been a lifeline to you in life through difficult times, and easier still to abandon it when you don't need it anymore. God's free choice is indeed a precious gift. just my personal observation.
I too had a knot on my throat watching people jump out of desperation. My idea was always to throw Bin Laden off a cliff after that. But it's too late now, we have politicized and extended what should have been a decisive retaliatory strike and turned it into nation building in a place where democracy is a sign of weakness and has never worked. We are there to protect Karzai's hold as the mayor of Kabul and his reign as the de-facto Opium lord of Asia.
Jarhead
Well, if there was no religion, I think just as much would be done in the name of charity because people are inherently good and decent. I don't need any faith to tell me what's right.
yep....why does 'good' have to be attributed to a 'god'?? people have a built in sense of right and wrong....
the older i get the more i get anti-religions....i see the pain they cause people, the churches lead by adulterous deceivers, the people who follow false prophets and give them their money to the prophets can live the high life....
i am convinced that IF there is a god, a lot of those christians are gonna be in for a shock after death.....and IF there is a god, i don't think they'd be judgmental if you didn't believe, they'd forgive you....it's all about being a good person....
and it really pisses me off these churches interfering in government yet the churches are tax free....you've got christians claiming gay marriage is a 'sin'....well LOVE is not a 'sin' is it?? why should your hate filled judgmental book written by men to control populations control americans who have the freedom of religion??
FUCK RELIGIONS!!!
and yes i have friends who are christians....but they aren't judgmental....they're more in line of 'christians' in the sense of being a good person....
Christina ~ I'm not arguing with you about religion ... But ... people can be caring, kind and passionate without having any religious convictions. I feel that I fall into that category. I'm a very moral, ethical, caring and open-minded person ... I'm also an agnostic. I have no room for organized religion in my life. Personally I think organized religion is a bunch of hooey. But I also think that you (meaning everyone else out there) has the right to believe what you want... just don't try to impose your beliefs on me.
I agree with miss tia. Organized religion (or believers in it & in the name of it) has been at the root of most of the violence in the world since the first religion came to being.
Hi Jarhead
I'm in agreement with you. It is easy to discard religion if you have never felt it carry you through the hard times. I have been in many dark holes in my life, and God and my faith in Him have always carried me through.
I also agree that we should have done something decisive when it would have made a difference.
I don't believe that just as much good would be done in this world, without religions. I think that's a fantasy. Frankly, those people whom I work with and know in general, who are not religious, tend to be more self-centered, and intolerant than those who do. Those who feel that religion wronged them or their family in some way spend the most time attacking and being vicious toward those of us who are Christian. It doesn't matter to them one bit that I didn't have anything to do with whatever their perceived wrong was, or that I am of a different denomination. I hear it at work and elsewhere, as well. My sister went through a rough time when she went through her divorce. She became an avid Christian, but when all her prayers were not immediately answered in the way she expected, she detached herself completely from what she said was her faith. I'm sure that she makes anti-religious comments as well, but I was there, and know how things went. No-one tried to do anything to her. No-one tried to harm her, or convert her, or do anything that might be perceived as negative. I took her to church with me, as that was what she wanted. It's just one example of one person I know who felt disenfranchised for totally unknown reasons. Pat, it's interesting that you feel that people are good and decent underneath. With your background . . .that is a huge leap of faith.
And for the record, I do not believe that the Bible is hate-filled. Sometimes people are, though.
Well, I prefer the bloody battles of the Old Testament and the story of the bloody march of David etc. Or the mandate to convert the infidels through the sword in the Quo'ran.
Sure, religion has taken part in most wars of expansion and conquest or subjugation from the time of Gilgamesh. The first duty of a priest in power is to stay in power; right?.
Just look at the Evangelical Far right movement of the 80's in Central America after the Sandinistas were defeated and there was no balance. The same void exists now between the shiite (Irani backed) and the sunni(Saudi backed).
On the flip side, one has to only travel in Asia and the Orient to find many charitable organizations working on behalf of faith groups or independent charities.
People do care about other people and it would be so without religion for sure. But churches also brought order to places like the new world (even at the expense of the Native populi)-that's life. Some people need structure and faith and hope in transcendency for a better after-life, or a life with purpose to fill in a joyless existence.
True poverty, the kind that wrenches your gut to see requires the spirit to be fed by something other then the occasional piece of bread; it needs something to pray to. Just my opinion.
Jarhead
"than the occasional" rather. Shit!
jarhead
Wallowing in the past bores me. Much more interested in Camille Paglia's take-down of Lady Gaga and her fans.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/magazine/article389697.ece
Christina, the people who have treated me the worst in life were Christians. Also the people who have treated me the best were mostly Christian. It's not a leap of faith, it's just my experience that makes me think most people are good regardless of their faith or lack of it.
Jar, seems to me they need some fried chicken and mashed taters. I've had stale bread and prayer, it wasn't filling.
people can be caring, kind and passionate without having any religious convictions. I feel that I fall into that category. I'm a very moral, ethical, caring and open-minded person ... I'm also an agnostic. I have no room for organized religion in my life. Personally I think organized religion is a bunch of hooey. But I also think that you (meaning everyone else out there) has the right to believe what you want... just don't try to impose your beliefs on me.
PERFECT, EXACTLY HOW I VIEW IT TOO!
I had someone tell me once that they couldn't believe I had 'such good morals' and that I didn't go to church......
i have never believed in god or any of that stuff.....i try to help out people to the best of my ability, i don't need no holy roller telling me how to live my life...
the evangelical christians around here are some of the most judgmental miserable people you'd ever want to meet.....but i have another neighbor who is a christian and she believes that being a good person is what it's all about, no religion needed....i personally see the strength her faith gives her and in a way i am enviousness, but i know that my strength comes from within.....
i believe that man is inherently good and needs no religion....religions have been around for thousands of years---even before christianity, in a way to control populations....religions were the government....it's all about control...have a government but no religion....
My feelings in religion are the same as my feelings in politics. You do anything and believe anything you want as long as it does not infringe on my rights and beliefs. (Yes, I am selfish that way!) I put 9/11 in the "stupid SOB killed innocent people so he could stup 70 virgins in his idea of heaven" in the infringing my life category. And even though my mother told me to never HATE, I think even she would agree with me on this! Just sayin'!!!
I would love to believe that man is inherently good. But I have my doubts.
Of course, many are; but we also know of many that are not. I don't believe that belonging to a faith and practicing necessarily gives you those abilities. I do find people who, without guidelines and moral value awareness given through church, would not have the ability to weigh good vs. evil (a sad fact). And of course, there are those who need no religious guidance to know right from wrong.
Man has always needed a belief in a higher power (in whatever form that may take) to understand its purpose on earth.
I have never belonged to a church although my grandmother (the most important person in my life) went every Sunday. And she was the most understanding, compassionate, reasonable and loving person I have known. She also believed in spirits, sittings and reincarnation and taught me tolerance, understanding and to keep my mind open.
I have a hard time tolerating organized religion because it ends up being a question of power, mindless, vacuous messages in order to control the masses, and greed. But I also feel that everyone has the right to believe and follow whatever faith/customs they chose. As long as this does not harm others.... obviously a very difficult ambition to fulfill.
My husband and I are raising my children in a non-religious home. We want them to be able to decide what is best for them and what works for them when they are old enough to make those decisions. That said, they are both attending a catholic school... which we chose based on the quality of education they are receiving. This particular school does welcome non-catholics and teaches tolerance and understanding. My son has his questions and knows he doesn't quite "belong" but also understands that this is a choice we made for him with the knowledge that, at the end of the day, it will be his decision to engage or not in this or another religious group.
I don't believe it's ever that black or white, really. One must be able to have the choice to learn, understand and pick bits and pieces from a multitude of sources to best fit where you see yourself belonging.
gaga is to cher, as jane lynch is to camille paglia.
We would still have wars even without religion because the natural order of the universe is chaos. Order and conformity is a man made fantasy. Instead, a Gov of egos without boundaries would probably emerge. In any case it's just opinions.
Pat, I'd take a stale toast and a prayer of hope though. I would never knock on anyone's door or preach for any reason whatsoever.
As we all said here, compassion is the most important common trait necessary in humanity in order to live peacefully.
"We are what we most often do every day, therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit".
Jarhead
That was an Aristotle quote. Three hundred years before Jesus he was already expressing morality and ethical conduct at a time when barbaric practices were the norm.
Jarhead
organized religion might be the death of us all....a worse scourge than any disease....
Live and let live. Period.
Jarhead...I would take that quote to school, but then they would catch on to my act. But I will mark it for future references---everyone will think I'm brilliant!
Now that Stephen Hawkings has virtually extinguished the "God-spark" rationale for the creation of the Universe, it makes me wonder if this is yet another blow to religion.
Probably not - belief in a higher power seems to be a necessary part of our genetic make-up.
We need to look up into the night sky and feel that there's more than just a scientific reason for our existence, that we're not alone in all this unimaginable vastness.
I don't believe in organized religion, but I want to believe there's more to us than merely physics.
DD - I enjoyed the links you posted.
Part 1
The more this plays out the more Americans see the proposed mosque for what it is – bogus.
The man behind the mosque has been outed by himself and now the money behind the mosque. All that’s left is for them to show how not interested they are in making peace anywhere – in Manhattan, in the US or throughout the Muslim world, which will be the final proof that the location is all that matters.
Mr Trump spoke with Anderson Cooper via telephone (transcript follows) and was disgusted that the mosque investor he wrote a letter to Hisham Elzanaty is just after money and that they will eventually sell after but only after they hear the right price. Mr Trump had offered them the price they paid +25%, a 24 hr closing, and help finding a new location with the stipulation that the new mosque not be built within a 5 block radius.
The offer was dismissed with personal and professional insult.
AC quoted Elzanaty as saying that he found Mr Trump’s letter “laughable” and that it “looked like it was written by a publicist” and that he was insulted by it.
Elzanaty’s lawyer, Wyolodymyr Starosolsky, called Mr Trump’s bid:
just a cheap attempt to get publicity and get in the limelight.
And with that he invited the the investigation of the 8 investors behind the mosque. Nobody says the word “cheap” about Mr Trump – especially in NYC – and gets away unscathed.
And this is going to result in the lawyer being investigated:
STAROSOLSKY: He knows what the value of the building is. If he were really interested in buying the building, he would have come forward with at least $20 million.
He said he has gotten offers as high as $20M for a property that they paid $4.8M last year, which Trump found ridiculous. The investor also called the people he made a deal with stupid – people of course Mr Trump knows.
Think of the absolute evil if they never intended on building the mosque there – that they bought the property knowing it would inflame people so they could hold out until they get the number they wanted.
Whatever the case, this refusal is going to turn even more people away from the mosquites. Even the most rabid supporter knows the very last person you want against you in NYC is Mr Trump.
Part 2
MR TRUMP:
I believe that he is using this building as a way to sell it for a lot of money, and he’s using religion as a way to get the price. And I don’t like it.
Stay tuned. Monday, Mr Trump will be on Larry King.
Transcript of AC – Mr Trump phone call FOLLOWS.
COOPER: So, Mr. Trump, what exactly did you hope to achieve by putting an offer on this property?
TRUMP: Well, Anderson, if you had been in New York — and maybe you are in New York, and you see what’s going on in terms of what is happening with people, the hatred. The — the whole situation is just ready to blow up. And it’s only going to get worse. And I read an article in one of the newspapers yesterday that they were putting a price tag of $18 million or $19 million on this building that they want to convert to a mosque. And I said, what’s this all about? I thought they wanted to build a mosque.
Now, I found out this man that has it, the developer, he’s a low- level real estate guess, without very much money and not enough money to build the mosque, as we understand it. And I called him. And I offered him the money that he paid for the facility, which is $4.8 million, plus a 25 percent profit, plus costs and lots of other things. And this would solve a very, very nasty problem. And he could go take the money and build it someplace else, but a little bit further away than this particular site.
And he was telling me what a great deal he made. He was telling me that the people were stupid that sold it to him for that low amount, and that it’s worth $18 million or $20 million, or that he had offers for $18 million or $20 million. And I said, how is that possible? You bought it less than a year ago. How do you have offers for $18 million or $20 million, when you bought it for $4.8 million?
He said, well, they were stupid. They made a mistake. Well, I know a lot of real estate people. And I also actually happen to know the people that owned the building. They’re not stupid people. So, I believe that he is using this building as a way to sell it for a lot of money, and he’s using religion as a way to get the price. And I don’t like it.
COOPER: You think he is basically holding out, hoping that maybe, what, the city or somebody will pay him a huge amount of money, more than the property is worth, just to — to move away?
Part 4
COOPER: You think this controversy is going to go on for a long time, or do you think this thing will get resolved some way?
TRUMP: Oh, I don’t think you — I don’t think you have seen the worst of it. It’s going to get worse and worse. And I really think it’s going to be very hard to get it built. I think construction workers are going to stop it. I think a lot of people are going to try and stop it.
And I thought my idea could be a way that, in every way, everybody benefits, except me, because I don’t even like the location. You want to know the truth, I don’t like — it’s probably the worst location I would have. So, I’m not a fan. I put it in my letter. I said, I’m making you this offer despite the fact I don’t even like the building or the location, but I’m doing it in order to create peace.
So, frankly, I think it’s going to get worse, and maybe far worse, before it gets better, Anderson.
COOPER: He has rejected, but is your offer still on the table?
TRUMP: Absolutely.
COOPER: Donald Trump…
TRUMP: And I told him, 24-hour closing, immediate, immediate closing.
COOPER: You got the cash?
TRUMP (chuckles): I definitely do.
COOPER: Donald Trump, appreciate your time. Thanks.
TRUMP: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: He definitely has the cash.
The bigger picture is that this mosque is just a tangible symbol for how a large part of America feels and it's given them the op to voice it. A reason, if you will. So, they don't feel un-PC or like floundering assholes spouting racist rubbish. The way Islam has responded validates them. My opinion, of course.
Not all Christians are ignorant, intolerant asses. Catagorizing every Christian as such is certainly just as intolerant and hateful as you claim them to be. I have no great need to preach about my faith to anyone. I have no desire to "force" anyone to convert. I have no anger/intolerance for other beliefs. and yes,believe it or not-I am a Christian. Not all of us are idiots.
By "you" are you talking to me? Because, if you are, you can't read.
Grrrr. . . I just watched a bit about the mosque on CNN. The jerk that owns the property had a shit-eating grin on his face, and kept saying "we are filling a need", and that America as a whole needs this. I felt like I was looking at the face of evil.
Wow Nancyb, thanks for that transcript. I do believe Trump would have the ready cash to close on deals like that quickly.
This is the way of the State of Islam. This generation of confused youth grew up with the social justice chip in their ear through the Palestinian question.
They bully, threaten and kill to get their way. About time the world stands up to these idiots.
jarhead
Sign me up for Team Fried Chicken & Mashed Taters.
"True poverty, the kind that wrenches your gut to see requires the spirit to be fed by something other then the occasional piece of bread; it needs something to pray to"
Interesting. That seems to agree with Karl Marx who famously said "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
The purpose of religion is to create an acceptable illusion for the poor. If this life sucks, the next one will be better. This illusion only facilitates the oppression of and power over the weak. Meanwhile you faithful sheep, why don't you donate what little money you have to the church and you'll be blessed (and we'll be rich oh and let us rape your children in god's name while we're at it).
Religion or not, humans will always dominate other humans to their detriment with some possible scattered altruistic acts by a few. The fact that most if not all conflict and war can be laid at the feet of the world's religions makes this group the most reprehensible on earth. Especially christians who claim to follow christ when in fact nothing could be further than the truth.
Ghandi was right when said if everyone followed the principles of the Sermon on the Mount, there would basically be no war. Christians and their leaders should know better IF they bothered to follow their founding icon, but they don't.
The Sermon on the Mount is an inspired but idealistic set of values for christians. He said to be mild-tempered, peaceable, merciful, and a lover of righteousness. He condemned
not only murder but being wrathful with others. He said to 'Love even those who dislike you, give to the needy, stop judging others unmercifully (hello you 'faithful' hell spewing trolls!), treat others as you would like to be treated.
Clearly your god is right there behind every side in every war in his name, right? Riiiiight.
God sustaining you through tough times? Illusion. The humility invoked by those who believe god intervened personally on their behalf? Affected. In fact it's arrogant and presumptuous to believe any supreme deity even noticed you in the first place.
Just my opinion.
DD, I think it's admirable you are reading the Qur’an in an effort to be fair and objective. It's why I love you're blog. I have one. Not a blog, a Qur'an. It's a beautiful book like any other leather bound book. It's not a religious thing or a pro-Islamic thing. I happen to like books. I skimmed through it and found it so foreign! (the book of Clot of Blood? Yikes) The friend who gave it to me said a good Muslim learns Arabic to read it in its original language. So you're absolutely right, when you're done they will say god only speaks Arabic.
Religion. Can't live with it...pass the beer nuts.
Frimmy---i always like your comments....they are well said and well thought out....
and i totally agree with what you just said, but could never articulate it as well as you just did!
you're blog?!
Sorry about that. I should know better.
Don't take the "You" comment so personally. "you" collectively refers to those who preach intolerance of any belief system other than their own. Hypocrisy abounds in us all-unfortunately we too rarely reconize it.
Hi Frimmy,
I am well versed in Karl Marx as well!. He wrote that from the basement of Friedrich Engels house as he was forming a hybrid form of Socialism taking the natural order of the Brit/ the workers revolution matrix from the French and the German political Weltanschau.
A view that required his opposition to religious groups that contradicted the "enlightened" view of academics that has been trashed by greats from Tolstoy to Dostoevsky; people who actually lived and suffered through a hopeless period of communism. Dostoevsky called it "silly unfinished ideas"- and he was right.
I've read the Quo'ran twice and could not help but notice the amazing similarities between it and the Old Testament!--Mohammed must have been a reader as well as a businessman.
Not unlike the similarities between Homer's "Odysseus" and "Sinbad the sailor"; same book just copied by the Muslims and passed off as an original work.
Karl Marx was an insecure hack with a frustrated chip on his shoulders because he wasn't successful, Friedrich Engels was his money man with a guilty conscience because he had too much money. Isn't it great?- Self-absorbed elitists pontificating to the masses, kinda like John Kerry.
Jarhead
And James Joyce wrote "Ulysses" borrowing heavily from Odysseus and the Irish phone book.
J.
Pat, I had a reader's guide the first time I read it and it helped with verses and the order of allusions.
The text is largely interpreted and not in the original text of the 600's. Once again, a man's interpretation of a dream in which an angel dictated prophecy to someone and he gained from it. Good luck with it.
jarhead
TEAM FRIMMY!!!
Great. More crap to read. You guys are killing me. ~puts head on desk~
speaking of crap to read, i sent ya an email DD asking if you know what i might have encountered the other day....
I have chosen Christianity to follow. It's right for ME...and I hate when anyone of any religion pushes their beliefs on others and I hope that I am never guilty of that. I am so for separation of church and state. I still shake my head that a big open park isn't the plan for that spot.I'm sure most all can agree on the healing powers of NATURE in this country. Grass, water features,trees,flowers...etc. I like Obama, too...but on this issue I think he messed up.
all the earths conflicts have been started by some religion. It never stops, never will. Its unceasing. Religion has started all the wars. Like WTH? To have peace, you have to go kill other people? Really? I think the frustration that John Lennon felt was like many of us today feel. Religion just eff's everything up. BIll Maher's movie "Religalous" is great. many church leaders dont even know what the hell they are fighting for. They just inhnerited this fight & so it just keeps going, generation after generation. For new, additional reasons, but it just keeps rolling on. War fuels the economy they finally figured that one out, so it's also good business. I hate the world, but I love this planet.
rox
What i hate most of all, is this: When someone survives some horrific disaster or car accident, earthquake and said it was because God saved them. Really? But then why did God choose to kill that school full of small children, or why did that school bus go over that cliff? Or whatever? If god is peaceful & loving, he doesn't/shouldn't choose to kill anybody. SH** happens. Thats what life is, really short! Some shorter than others. But god kills some and lets others live? Does god live in Vegas, and just roll the dice? I hate that sh**. Don't blame/credit god for saving your ass either. It's all about time & place. God doesnt' save you nor does he cause you to die in a horrific accident! If he does? Then why would you choose to be his friend? Friends like that I don't need! I mean, pick a team, right? Do you kill people, or save people? It is illogical thinking. I cannot deal with any of it ever again.
rox
i think the same thing rox!!! it's always 'god saved them' etc etc....
and why would some 'god' allow children to be raped, tortured and murdered???
fuck that religious shit....
Should have went to Afghanistan, killed Bin-Ladens ass. Bombed the hell outta the place. WTF? Chasing after Saddam? WTF? He had zero to do with that 9-11 attack. Altho, I can say, he probably didn't object, except he knew his ass was grass after that.
1998 and 2000 - Former President George H.W. Bush travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the U.S. While there he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family.
July 4-14, 2001 - Osama bin Laden receives treatments for kidney disease at the American hospital in Dubai and meets with a CIA official who returns to CIA headquarters on July 15th.
Soooo.bin Laden made sure to get his kidney surgery out of the way before the attacks! It's insanity. Why were we chasing after Saddam, & not bin Laden? Really? This whole shitstorm could have been over looooong ago. I am no expert, of course. But it seems much time & lives have been completely wasted on this almost futile effort
rox
Well, crap. I apologize, Pat. I read your post too quickly...so even though I still like my first comment (I did say what I "needed to say"), it seems irrelevant to your post. Don't you think it's so much about greed, also? Whether religion is in the mix or not? Man wants land, power, etc...and since the beginning of time, his end to that desire was WAR.
No problem. Maybe I didn't word enough. As to your last question, leaders have always relied on religion to justify their greed. You can not seperate those two things.
Yea Frimmy!!
Yea Rox !!
I am a Christian. I always have been, and I always will be. God is in every cell of my being, in every bit of DNA, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
The amount of hatred spewed toward Christians here sometimes astounds me. I know this is in no way a Christian blog, but why such hatred? This is not a place of tolerance. There is no live and let live here.
For the record, God has gotten me through many hard times, where I could not even begin to see daylight. Mary has been there for me more times than I can count, and other saints have been here to comfort me as well. God is my guide and my inspiration. Without Him I could not face many of the things I have had to deal with, personally and professionally.
As far as a memorial at Ground Zero, I am not sure what to suggest. I keep thinking back on the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. There was an outcry at the time it was proposed, as people didn't understand it and thought it was a terrible excuse for a war memorial. In time, many came to appreciate just how perfect it was. I hope that whomever is in charge of this site chooses very carefully.
Christina,
Hi. Please don't get upset over opinions, especially ones you feel so strong about. Your faith is your own, right?.
Besides, it's the same small group that insults religion and trashes any idea separate from their own. Without facts and using profanity as proof of their statements.
Pat's reading the Quo'ran, if we can find a volunteer to go to Thailand and become a Buddhist we can start a Ecclesiastical synod.
I understand what you are saying because I have also felt the same relief Christina.
Jarhead
Anyone ever watch "The name of the Rose" with Sean Connery?.
Jarhead
Yep, saw that movie a couple of times, Jarhead.
Hi Can't see sheep,
The scene in which the Catholic council meets to decide whether Jesus' clothes were his or borrowed is precisely the type of B.S. that I believe went on with the Vatican bureaucracy and the struggle to keep competing religions from taking converts. Not to mention the injection of fear of the devil and witch burning.
The poorest people lived outside the monastery!- that was almost comical.
Jarhead
maybe if the comments were read you'd understand the hatred towards christianity and religion....there was a post awhile back where there was a really good discussion about jevohah witnesses....we have former JW's here and they discussed why they were....
many who are against religions have stated why too.....i think everyone who's posted against religions have stated they have known 'christians' who are atypical to what they are complaining about....
turn on the tv and watch some of those evangelicals preaching about how god wants you to be rich, look at all their jewelry, read about the scandals of adultry, the affairs, etc....catholic priests molesting boys, etc....
i mean really? you have not learned one reason why some of us are intolerant to organized religions??
ps:
why do i need to be tolerant? (i can't speak for anyone else)....why do i need to be tolerant for an organized religion that calls me bad and says i'm going to hell if i don't give my money and soul to their baby jesus and parrot them in their hypocritical and judgmental actions??? there's no tolerance shown to me by groups of christians.....
christians are also the last people to live and let live....they must keep harping and harping and trying to 'reform' you.....some of them must get a commission for the souls they collect or something....
I read all the comments and know about Rox' 20 years in the JW's and the reasons why you and others take an aversion to religion.
I have never contradicted any of the generalities like "all wars are started by religion"-no, some were just plain expansion. Cyrus conquered and allowed others to keep their religion-and there are many others.
Followers of many faiths comment here and I don't recall any of them asking anyone here to convert. Don't be tolerant; I don't care one way or another. If I choose not to say anything it's because I tire of reading your cheers for Pat and hatred for anything you disagree with.
You are the most combative PTSD sufferer I have ever met, and I have met many. I don't give a shit about anything you have to say simply because it's filled with hate and intolerant ignorance.
Jarhead
Jarhead, i am sure you are an expert in PTSD, as you are in everything else....my comment WAS NOT directed towards you, as i told you via an email i will never respond to any comment of yours (though i appear to be doing so now)....my comment was directed towards Christina....
i even took your email bait awhile ago, but no, you just wanted to continue to proselytize.....
i am going back to ignoring your comments and your incessant googling of quotes and your constant heaviness with no brevity and the i am a renaissance man with a cake lady....
Mr Jarhead,
Unfortunately I am giving you a bit of attention today just to ask a question. And please for gawds sake, make the answer short & sweet?
Who in the hell are you? What Marine cares what a bunch of women are saying & gives them incessant lessons on his own "feelings" and shares that much? Like I said, a man doesn't care what a bunch of women have to say & would avoid any site where they were commenting and would stay as far away as he could. I felt that last comment was directed at me with much hatred and deep seated feelings of anger in general towards women. I was the only one mentioned by name, if it wasn't for me then w/e. It was still filled with a msg between the lines. You hate women, or you really like them but they hate you & wont have anything to do with you so you bug DD's with your BS all day long. Stop it with the constant school lessons. We have other sh** to talk about. We would like to keep it light & enjoyable but as of late, you have tuned this site into your own School of the Jarhead. WTF? Stop it! We used to have a good time here. You are not fun anymore. & stop accusing people of sh** that isn't true. Don't you have some dudes to talk to/hang out with/get drunk with/fight with? I honestly don't get it. If my husband was doing DD's all day long, I would swear he was a little light in the loafers. We don't need the condescending attitude and certainly not the school lessons. I used to love it here and I still love Pat. But WTH? This is the Jarhead School Of Technology now.
*blech*
rox
rox---that comment was directed towards me....but i really take issue with the PTSD comment....fucking insensitive, condescending and just an ass....
you nailed it with the 'school of jarhead' though.....i'm ignoring him, but i had to reply to the comment directed at me.....i guess he didn't read my email where i said i would ignore him and i even told him the issue a few of us had with him, but he ignored that....he's atypical of a manly marine where he'll avoid conflict/confrontation.....but that might be stereotyping on our part and is rather wrong to do, though he does it to some of us....
whatever....ignore ignore ignore is the best thing rox!!! guess we fed into his ego and replied to him eh?? back to ignore and no disrespect meant to pat!!!!
"If I choose not to say anything it's because I tire of reading your cheers for Pat and hatred for anything you disagree with."
Why does this remind me of something someone else has said on here? Something to the effect that they hate it when we all agree with DD. I know I have read this same thing before but from anonther poster.
Hey Crabbie,
I have been reading the NY Post every day to see a bit more tidbits on the Gaga scandal. Did you notice that she and her former manager/boyfriend both ended their lawsuits at the same time as this story broke?
Things that make you go hmmmm.
I'm sure you've heard it plenty here Heidi.
Tia and Rox had her fun with kiki and she left because she had no interest in arguing a point with them.
No apologies from either one about the way they treated her and unjustly insinuated her and I are someone other than who we are.
You have my email if you want to say anything. You can go on your 10 post ramble and then claim vertigo for 10 minutes. You're a sour bully lucky enough to have people like the rest of us pay into a system, that allows you to trash everything. I think the PTSD box was an extra 200 bucks a month for you.
Rox, I can't wait for your book. I haven't stopped laughing since you mentioned you're writing one.
Bye
jarhead
fuck....i posted a reply and it disappeared!
ok....so religion is a subject most disagree on why would it be different here? the only reason for all the arguing is because no one will agree with the one person on here who thinks HE is right. religion is a belief everyone has the right to believe or not. so if someone doesn't believe the same way it doesn't make them wrong. if you are so religious then you should not be passing judgement on anyone here.
BTW, Meissa2112 WELL SAID ABOUT MISS TIA!
Tia is one of my best friends and we don't agree on religion but we both respect each others beliefs.
Jenna
Tia,
Blogger has been acting up. Yesterday I tried to post something 3 times and it never took.
i will try again.....
i am sick of this shit....jar and his sanctimonious attitude has ruined this site for me....the preaching, the condescending attitude....it's a total downer and a drain and tiresome....
i told you via an email while ago that i would ignore your comments but apparently your ego is too big to accept that....and instead today you involved yourself in a comment that was not directed at yourself....
why bring up kiki with me?? i have no reason to apologize to her at all and she knows why....i told her i would never mention it here and i shan't....your comment though alludes that rox and i were picking on her and that is wrong and untrue...i was the one who emailed her, no one else, and i am made it perfectly clear what the problem was....there was zero explanation for her to make nor was it an argument....it was facts....
your comments about my PTSD sound very similar to a troll's comments....i am open about my disability, but for some reason you think it's fun to make fun of it.....that shows more about YOUR character than mine....may you and your family never suffer from a disability (i sincerely mean that) and then have someone make fun of it....
PTSD is a real disease...and vertigo is a real disease also....rox has it way worse than me....i remember you bullying rox a few weeks ago....you feel like a big man picking on disabled women???.....
leave me the fuck alone and i'll leave you the fuck alone, is that that difficult of a concept for you to comprehend and do?? i have ignored you since i emailed you that....why you decided to spout off today at me i have no clue....
you obviously don't respect pat or her site at all by doing that here....you have my email address and you could have emailed me...but no, you wanted to be a drama queen....
i am sorry for the dramz pat....if jar is any type of man he'd now take this to email....but i shan't hold my breath...
misstiaemail@yahoo.com
well my comment keeps disappearing....i guess i'll email it to jar....too bad his comment doesn't disappear too....his insinuations in it are wrong....he's the one bullying people....
i will try again.....
i am sick of this shit....jar and his sanctimonious attitude has ruined this site for me....the preaching, the condescending attitude....it's a total downer and a drain and tiresome....
i told you via an email while ago that i would ignore your comments but apparently your ego is too big to accept that....and instead today you involved yourself in a comment that was not directed at yourself....
why bring up kiki with me?? i have no reason to apologize to her at all and she knows why....i told her i would never mention it here and i shan't....your comment though alludes that rox and i were picking on her and that is wrong and untrue...i was the one who emailed her, no one else, and i am made it perfectly clear what the problem was....there was zero explanation for her to make nor was it an argument....it was facts....
your comments about my PTSD sound very similar to a troll's comments....i am open about my disability, but for some reason you think it's fun to make fun of it.....that shows more about YOUR character than mine....may you and your family never suffer from a disability (i sincerely mean that) and then have someone make fun of it....
PTSD is a real disease...and vertigo is a real disease also....rox has it way worse than me....i remember you bullying rox a few weeks ago....you feel like a big man picking on disabled women???.....
leave me the fuck alone and i'll leave you the fuck alone, is that that difficult of a concept for you to comprehend and do?? i have ignored you since i emailed you that....why you decided to spout off today at me i have no clue....
you obviously don't respect pat or her site at all by doing that here....you have my email address and you could have emailed me...but no, you wanted to be a drama queen....
i am sorry for the dramz pat....if jar is any type of man he'd now take this to email....but i shan't hold my breath...
misstiaemail@yahoo.com
maybe if i break it in 2....
i will try again.....
i am sick of this shit....jar and his sanctimonious attitude has ruined this site for me....the preaching, the condescending attitude....it's a total downer and a drain and tiresome....
i told you via an email while ago that i would ignore your comments but apparently your ego is too big to accept that....and instead today you involved yourself in a comment that was not directed at yourself....
why bring up kiki with me?? i have no reason to apologize to her at all and she knows why....i told her i would never mention it here and i shan't....your comment though alludes that rox and i were picking on her and that is wrong and untrue...i was the one who emailed her, no one else, and i am made it perfectly clear what the problem was....there was zero explanation for her to make nor was it an argument....it was facts....
your comments about my PTSD sound very similar to a troll's comments....i am open about my disability, but for some reason you think it's fun to make fun of it.....that shows more about YOUR character than mine....may you and your family never suffer from a disability (i sincerely mean that) and then have someone make fun of it....
PTSD is a real disease...and vertigo is a real disease also....rox has it way worse than me....i remember you bullying rox a few weeks ago....you feel like a big man picking on disabled women???.....
leave me the fuck alone and i'll leave you the fuck alone, is that that difficult of a concept for you to comprehend and do?? i have ignored you since i emailed you that....why you decided to spout off today at me i have no clue....
you obviously don't respect pat or her site at all by doing that here....you have my email address and you could have emailed me...but no, you wanted to be a drama queen....
i am sorry for the dramz pat....if jar is any type of man he'd now take this to email....but i shan't hold my breath...
misstiaemail@yahoo.com
Well I can't ignore what Jar said about Karl Marx. I have to agree and add that he was my least favourite Marx Brother. ;)
Groucho Marx FTW!!! LOVE GROUCHO! :)
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