I haven't posted much about Michael, I had to think on it for awhile. He still confuses me and I've spent the last week watching every interview and film on him I could find. There's a part of me that will always love him and hope the bad stuff isn't true, but, I think it is. And I hate that part of him. Michael was so different and Joe fucked him up so bad. He was definitely magical and he believed in magic. He said so in one interview and he talked about getting his songs from another place. He indicated the sky, but, I think he was talking about another planet. I'm sure of it, because when he meant god, he said god and it wasn't god he was talking about. Michael was raised Jehovah's Witness and later gave it up, but, he did talk about god. He also talked about magic. Real magic. He said his music was written before he got it, he was a channel.
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Michael talked about Joe beating him and how afraid he was of Joe. My daughter was here when that one was playing and she said "Oh my god! He beat him with a belt!?" She was horrified. I explained to her that a lot of us were beaten back then. It was very common. My mom would switch me until my legs bled. I hated the belt, that really left marks. I made a remark that MJ was a weenie. I shouldn't have said that. But..it's not that big a deal to me and I forgive my parents for that. In fact, I have no hard feelings about it. I have a lot of things I will never forgive my parents for, but, beating me isn't one of them. It was like a right of passage back then.
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Joe WAS bad, but, Michael said he'd throw up when Joe would come in a room. He hated him so much and was so afraid of him. My father was the bad one too. His punishments were so severe, I can't even type them. But, I still didn't let him ruin my childhood. I don't know, maybe Michael was so sensitive he couldn't take it. I'm just sitting here pondering that. I'll bet many of you were beaten. I kind of thought it was funny that Casey was horrified. Do you hold it against them? Does it still haunt you? Let's discuss it.
Joe WAS bad, but, Michael said he'd throw up when Joe would come in a room. He hated him so much and was so afraid of him. My father was the bad one too. His punishments were so severe, I can't even type them. But, I still didn't let him ruin my childhood. I don't know, maybe Michael was so sensitive he couldn't take it. I'm just sitting here pondering that. I'll bet many of you were beaten. I kind of thought it was funny that Casey was horrified. Do you hold it against them? Does it still haunt you? Let's discuss it.
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I like that pic of MJ, he was so beautiful back then. Oh, and I have to add, MJ didn't always tell the truth. If you watch those videos, like I did, one after the other, you'll know that. He was telling the truth about Joe though and I hope that old bastard never gets his paws on Michael's kids.
I like that pic of MJ, he was so beautiful back then. Oh, and I have to add, MJ didn't always tell the truth. If you watch those videos, like I did, one after the other, you'll know that. He was telling the truth about Joe though and I hope that old bastard never gets his paws on Michael's kids.
27 comments:
I wouldn't say my parents " beat" me, but they certainly SPANKED me plenty. It never occurred to me that it was something to be resentful about. There were other things that they did that left more real (psycological) damage that I am still trying to unravel.
I'm really sorry you - and others - had to deal with that growing up. My dad's dad "dealt" with him that way and unfortunately my dad did not break the cycle. My brother had it worse than I did, that's for sure.
The more I learn of Michael Jackson, the more I feel empathy for him as a person because of what he endured. I don't think he suffered just physical abuse and obviously he suffered to the extent that it really affected who he was as a person.
Some people are just stronger than others, and can work past it easier. I think Michael was a very sensitive boy and the abuse he suffered stunted him severely.
P.S. He was a beautiful person in his youth. I wish he had not altered himself so severely.
They why is it acceptable or forgivable for your parents to 'beat' you, but if Kate Gosselin spanks one of her brood, she's a monster?
Michael was a gentle soul who grew up surrounded by violence. It scarred him for life. So sad.
I am very sorry DD to hear about your young life.
MJ's kids need to be far away from the ENTIRE Jackson family. They are all screwed up one way or another. MJ's kids should be raised by their nanny, to be honest. She has been with them from the very beginning and probably the only stable adult that they had. Rowe never wanted them, Katherine Jackson only wanted them for the money, Joe Jackson should never be around them, Janet and Latoya do not even have kids nor did they want any, and the brothers have their own problems. Diana Ross, do not even get me started with that nut. I am surprised that MJ did not leave his kids to The Elephant Man. Maybe he should have.
The only solution is the nanny.
JJones quotes LaToya Jackson's book, and it really got me upset. If Katherine Jackson hates Jews, I fear for her raising those children, particularly the two oldest. Their mother is Jewish, which makes them Jewish by heritage, and if the dermatologist is their bio father, well there we go.
If Michael shared his mother's views, why in the world would he have chosen these people to be the biological parents of his first two kids? It is boggling my mind and now I don't know who should raise those children.
I must say that I don't have a will yet and when I do sit down and get it together, I can't really say there's anyone I want raising my kids. Everyone's got issues. My mom made me and my brother feel like having kids was the worst thing in the world. My Mother in law is a pot smoking crazy woman . My brother is a pill head with no motivation who lives in my grandmothers basement. My brother in law and his wife have 2 of the worst sons i have ever seen. Some bad ass kids!They don't know what to do either. This is probably one of the hardest decisions i will ever make.
JJones: hello! I was also a J-Dub. But no more. It IS a cult. MJ did go in service door to door. We were always proud to call him one of our own. I never knew any to be against jews. I knew some that were anti-black somewhat. Mostly, the ones we knew were just the most materialistic people I had ever met. I was a JW for 30 yeras. My kids grew up in it. We havent went to a meeting for 7 years. And glad to be out. tghere are many a scandal involving them & the Brooklyn offices hiding it and paying off the families to stay quiet. Bryan Williams did a NBC News report about the molesting on the news one night. It ain't a secret! However we didnt actually hear about this until we were out. I hate the religion. I do not wish to ever go to any church again. It happened at our kingdom Hall too. It was very shady how it was handled. I would like to talk to you more about this. I think we have that in common. The man rules the roost with an iron fist, and has the permission of the elders. No interference. I never beat my kids but I was beaten. I am 51 years old. Thats just how it was. I still feel bad that it happened tho. Joe Jackson is a ruthless selfish bastard. MJ's kids are beautiful and I hope he doesnt have any authority in raising them. Why did MJ give the kids to his mom? he knows Joseph would have his claws in it!! he would hate knowing Joseph was helping raise them. Dear gawd! Hope the aunts & uncles step in and keep him out of it. He needs to go back to vegas & leave the family alone.I dont think Katherine is much of a JW anyway. She let MJ throw a huge b'day party for her every year. Celebs came. It was always a big deal.
Roxanne
JJones,
I never read that book but after reading your post I plan on getting a copy. The nightmare I thought exisited seems far worse from those book highlights mentioned.
RKwrite,
you cannot be jewish by "heritage" judaism is a religion, not a nationality. and many christians do not like jews because they do not believe in jesus christ or the resurrection, which is the basis of christianity. so yes.. she probably doesn't like people who are jewish, but that doesn't mean the kids are jewish. they most likely werent brought up with judaism.
not that i am defending katherine jackson in any way what so ever. i just like people to have their facts straight.
Sad situation all around, especially for the kids. I, too, wonder why MJ wanted Katherine to take care of his kids. I guess it all goes back to his dysfunctional childhood (and adulthood) and therefore not making logical decisions.
jus'wondering said...
They why is it acceptable or forgivable for your parents to 'beat' you, but if Kate Gosselin spanks one of her brood, she's a monster?
July 11, 2009 3:26:00 PM GST
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Because beatings were acceptable back then. People really didn't know better. They didn't have access to articles and books and vids on child rearing like we do today. Kate Gosselin knows it's wrong. We all now know it's wrong. She doesn't have ignorance as an excuse. And she beats her children in anger. She knows damn well it's not acceptable or she wouldn't have hidden it. She pretended they only get time outs for a long time, but, those of us who watched knew better. We even caught Jon in one episode with the famous red spoon. Why did she hide it if she thinks it's okay?
And why did you put 'beat' in quotes?
I was never severely beaten but I remember one night my Dad came home and caught me smoking, I was about 14. He took off his belt and chased me around the table, which I never would have done(defy), but I had just bought him that white shiny belt('70s)for his birthday and didn't think it was fair since it was a gift from me.. I didn't get beat with it but got grounded for probably 2 weeks. Grounding was the worst! I would beg to get beat instead of grounded. I never beat my kids, never had the heart. I probably should have beat the shit out of my son, he turned out to be a real SOB!
6:05:00 Your wrong. Being Jewish is both a race and a religion. There are many born Jew's who have never practiced or believed the religion.
I have hated MJ for so long. Now I'm angry because what if all this time I was wrong? When I hear of any crimes against children I automatically take the childs side. I was one of those kids who went to their 'mom' and told her someone was hurting me. She fuckin doubted me. It wasn't until the medical evidence and the person admitted it that it dawned on her I was telling the truth. Yeah, because a freakin seven year old could even imagine the shit he did too me. Anyway, I have hated him since the first acusation and now I just don't feel anything. The one thing that really pisses me off tho is CNN, FOX and MSNBC were out there during his trials and tribulations. Didn't the networks have a responsibility to report the truth? Oh well. My rant is done. I've decided to just not think about it anymore. Oh and the fuck who hurt me got to spend fourteen years in prison and when he was let out the deported his butt back to Canada.
I would like to register my disgust at the family and media for exploiting those children. He protected those kids, didn't whore them out for public consumption (I'm not naming any names..) but that this is lost on both parties especially the family, makes me furious. Anything for ratings and to sell magazines I guess.
Oh, and fuck you Joe Jackson.
Any human being that could climb a tree to write songs and have the kind heart he did, didnt have a mean or cruel bone in his body. And would not have "raped" "touched" anybody, that way. He didnt ever know a normal life and that sucks. He tried to make his own childhood when he was an adult, he just wanted to make it up to himself. IMO. He made some dumb decisions, esp after the 1st accusation. He should not have never even been seen near a kid after that, just to keep people from thinking the worst. But he was innocent and still didnt see anyhing wrong with having kids over at his house. he was a sitting duck for anyone to make the accusation after the 1st time. It was his own fault, his own stupid fault. He made himself the perfect target. Ryan White is buried about 8 miles from my house. Maybe sometime I will take a picture of the beautiful monument that stands at his grave from MJ & Elton John and send it to Pat to post. A child molester would not do what he did for that boy. I cry about this when I think about it. People have the most filthy vulgar minds. I hate that.
Roxanne
My father beat us with a belt. A nice thick one. He'd send us up to our rooms to wait and then come up the stairs snapping that big thick belt just to increase the terror. I almost pissed my pants during one of his beatings, it was sooo close but I knew I better not or I'd get worse.
Parents that didn't spank their kids were looked down on in those days but plenty of parents like mine went way overboard. Plenty of parents put all their anger and frustration in life into those beatings. They took their crap out on their kids and it WAS abuse, no two ways about it.
I was raised by parents who believed children should be seen and not heard. Mother hit first and asked questions later. I thought at the time, being unable to express my feelings then as adequately as now, that she got some kind of perverse pleasure in causing us pain. She liked to sneak attack so we couldn't brace for impact, for example. She seemed to be triggered by behaviors exhibited more in my sister next in line to me in the birth order. (I was the eldest of five) I'd tell her black was white if that's what she wanted, who cared? My sister would not. I spent more time standing and watching her getting beaten than experiencing it myself. I endured guilt knowing I was responsible for her safety - "as the oldest you must take care of your brother and sisters" - and failing. Not only was I failing, I was failing to protect her from the one who told me to protect her. I experienced relief, pure and simple, that it was not me getting beaten. It was a confusing mix. I remember a moment as clearly as if it were yesterday where I contemplated killing my mother while she was beating my sister. I at first thought I would physically restrain her from hurting her. I knew that she would then turn on me. My next thought was to knock her out somehow. Then I could run away before she came to. Then I realized she would continue her abuse on my younger sibs. My only option was to kill her to save them. But I couldn't do it. I lived with the guilt, anger and feelings of failure for many years because of my cowardice. As an adult, I apologized to my sister for failing her many times and never felt any cleaner.
Of course children cannot win in a situation like that. They are powerless. Combine that with the children "seen and not heard" standard and you have desperate children with a story to tell and no voice in which to tell it.
You cannot hang on to anger like that and not damage yourself. At some point you have to find a way to let it go. I spoke with my mother a few times when she was rational and heard a story of a childhood so evil it seemed nightmarish. I started to realize that by comparison, my mother did try very hard not to perpetrate the same evils on to us the best way she could. There were no Oprah's when she was struggling with motherhood. No self help groups. No definition of what constituted abuse. Children were more possessions than adults under development.
I was well into my thirties when I realized I came from a dysfunctional abusive family. I had Oprah to help with that. I used to think I broke the cycle of abuse in making healthy choices about how I would raise my kid. I realize now that was arrogant. My mother broke the cycle because she made concious decisions not to do to us what had been done to her. We still suffered, I'm not minimizing that, but she did far less to us than was done to her.
I think as small as it seems I do owe her credit for trying and I am able to be the mother I am today because she went before me and tried to do better. As MJ himself once said, "I am here, because you were there."
This is what I try to focus on when I remember back to some of the bad times. Also, I had a sister born ten years after me and another born 19 years after me. My mother did not EVER beat them. So I personally saw, as the eldest, that she learned better ways as she had more children. I can resent her for her trial and error path of destruction through my childhood, or I can respect her for seeing where she could do better and applying herself to change. I choose respect.
Anonymous said...
My father beat us with a belt. A nice thick one. He'd send us up to our rooms to wait and then come up the stairs snapping that big thick belt just to increase the terror. I almost pissed my pants during one of his beatings, it was sooo close but I knew I better not or I'd get worse.
Parents that didn't spank their kids were looked down on in those days but plenty of parents like mine went way overboard. Plenty of parents put all their anger and frustration in life into those beatings. They took their crap out on their kids and it WAS abuse, no two ways about it.
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Wow, I could have written that myself... Sad. I'm sorry.
i think michaels biggest problem was his sexuality and thats why he got so fucked up. its pretty much on the cards that, at best, he was gay and there is no way, with a jw father like joe, that open gay sexuality would have been permitted. if he was gay (and lets face it, he really wasn't into women) its really sad that he had to hide that. at worst, he was a pedophile, which is probably more the truth and that is very sad. i guess, for some people, parental violence can cause the victims a lot of confusion and these victims just don't have any boundaries because theirs have always been violated. and, i suppose, we will never know what it was like to experience fame in the way that he did. there must have been really huge, global, expectations of his sexual prowess with the opposite sex and he couldn't live up to that. that must have been really hard for him, especially, during adolescence and early adulthood when peer group and fan based expectations would have been at their height. i can't help thinking of liberace in his sequened outfits when i see pictures of mj. but when i hear him singing 'ben' my heart just explodes and so thats how i plan to remember him. not for his fucked up sexuality and childhood, but for his extraordinary talent.
There was a man here in texas that trained rodeo roping horses. He was cruel and would leave them tied-up and saddled for hours, with the lead rope tied high so they cant look down.
he died of lyme's disease, but whenever the old man would show up at an event where his horses competed, their nostrils and eyes would get huge and they got skittish.
Much more on this guy, but I'll spare you the details since he is gone.
Thank you for all those stories. I read them all and I think about all of it and how it affects us. Before I die, I may start to be enlightened by all the ways we were formed.
I am sorry to upset people who believed in MJ, but, I think his sexuality was formed about age 12 and he never grew out of it. Molesters often do good for children, that's an MO they have. They are complicated.
I get upset by animal and child abuse stories. Very upset.
Very interesting to read about those of you who were Jehovah's Witnesses. I was raised Pentecostle. Holy Rollers. I became a Pagan at age 10. They tried to beat it out of me, but, they couldn't.
MICHEAL WAS A GREAT ENTERTAINER, BUT HE WAS ALSO A MAN WHO MOLESTED PRE PUBESCENT BOYS..U DON'T SETTLE OUT OF COURT FOR TEN MILLION BUCKS IF YOUR INNOCENT.. MICHEAL JACKON WAS A DECEITFUL HUMAN BEING WHO BLAMED EVERYTHING BAD THAT HAPPENED TO HIM ON EVERYBODY ELSE..HE NEVER TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ATROCIOUS ACTIONS..HIS WHOLE FAMILY ARE A BUNCH OF FINGER POINTERS INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING THAT THEY'RE A BUNCH OF IMMORAL LIARS.. MICHEAL DIED BECAUSE OF THE SELF DESTRUCTIVE CHIOCES HE MADE.. THAT'S A FACT!
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